The DistRogue

Saturday, January 26, 2008

Updates about SYS-Linux

I've learned a little more about SYS-Linux through the forums. Apparently, while it's still harder to upgrade than Windows, it *does* have a package-management system. And it uses the worst kind possible (at least IMO): Slackware's .TGZ packaging system. In a post, the lead developer says to download the packages yourself (as far as I can tell- I'm not a native Portugese speaker) and doesn't even provide a working link. I'm sorry, but I don't think "http:///" has any .TGZ packages. Anyways, downloading packages yourself, installing them via command line, and not even using dependency tracking? And this guy says his distro is for newbies? If you really like Slackware's packaging system, get Wolvix or Zenwalk, both of which have GUIs that download and install packages automatically, and have dependency tracking.
Then there's the package list. Bleeding-edge, fortunately enough, since you'll probably have to go for a while without upgrading it. In fact, it uses kernel 2.6.24-rc6-git2 (yes, a nightly build, which is probably as unstable and buggy as you can get- and this is the KERNEL!), Firefox 3.0-b2, Opera 3.25 (an ancient version released in 1998- cutting-edge indeed!), and db "1.85,2.4,3.3,4.2,4.4". Whatever than means. :S I honestly don't think a newbie likes it if their kernel crashes every 5 minutes, so they might want to pick a more stable version. Good news, though: kernel 2.6.24 just went stable!
And check it out: This distro satisfies everyone with its enormous package selection! Take a look at AV production, for instance:
* Audio-/Video-Studio/Produção: audacity 1.3.4 ; avidemux 2.4 , cinelerra 20071124 , dvdrip 0.98.8 , ffmpeg 20071102 , dvdshrink 2.6.1.10 , dvd+rw+tools 7.0 , k3b 1.0.4 , freevo 1.7.5 , acidrip 0.14, gstreamer 0.10.14 , kino 1.1.1 , kvideoencoder 0.0.8 , kstreamripper 0.3.4 , lxdvdrip 1.7 , mplayer 20071021 , muse 0.9.2 , rosegarden 1.6.1 , soundkonverter 0.3.6 , transcode 20071004 , sox 14.0 , streamripper 1.62.3 , winki 0.4.5

Errrm... Cool, but... I see 5 video editors (counting FFMpeg), 3 DVD rippers, 4 audio editors (counting Rosegarden), and a bunch of other redundant programs, but not much else. And under multimedia? There are 10 different media players. Looks like someone forgot didn't have time to fine-tune his app selection, did he?
And, of course, the all-emulating Wine.
* Emulador, p/usar programas de outros sistemas (McIntosh, Unix, Atari, Commodore, Windows): wine 0.9.51
Wait, Wine can emulate Mac/Atari/COMMODORE systems TOO? Wow, I never knew that! I always thought that "Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X, OpenGL, and Unix," like the site says. Really, if you don't know what something does, don't put it in there.
Now for the challenge: I will make a CD image based on Xubuntu that is marginally complete (and it's not complete unless it has Compiz, we all know that much) and can still fit on a CD. It's not only possible, but easy thanks to Reconstructor, a tool for remastering Ubuntu images. It will have improved artwork, a more complete app selection, and Compiz, but most importantly, it will fit onto a CD roughly a quarter as large as the SYS-Linux image. I'm doing this just to show that it's possible to have a complete system that doesn't take up /!\ 11GB /!\ when installed. SYS-Linux is based on Slackware, but a key tenant of Slackware got lost somewhere in the remastering: "Keep It Simple, Stupid!"
From Arch (versionless),
The Distrogue.

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12 Comments:

Anonymous werner said...

I'm the person who made SYS. I found your blog ocasionally. In your blog are many mistakes, f.ex. SYS is no remastering of SLAX - it works completely different - ; I never said that wine would emulate C64 and Macintosh, but SYS has other aplications/emulators; etc.

However, I don't want to contest this detailed. Instead of this, the explanation given p.ex. in distrowatch is pure tecnically, and I want to explain the distro from another side to can understand it better.


Often I repair (normally gratuitly) computers of friends, neighbours. From this I know well the problems of W$. For that work (f.ex., recover files) I use any Linux live CD, and I also speak about Linux. In almost all cases the persons are willingly to try it.

But then happen exactly these things, what are the reasons why Linux is until now not yet destop- or 'simple-people'-able. I don't want to explain here all lacks Linux has in this sense, but there are two problems the main reasons that even willing persons quickly dump Linux: too dificult to (re-) install it, incl. for friends; too difficult to get working a internet connection. Linux has thousands of internet tools -- but nothing for a simple person (not a specialist) after the instalation get working a connection .... In the most simple case (nowadays, a pppoe connection) you have to edit files like /etc/ppp/pap-secret, config etc -- this no beginner gets through and there should exist a simple wizzard what's doing this ! (The only distro which has this was Kurumin)

When you write to the distro maintainers, you loose a lot of time and nothing changes. But then you see that there is a big discrepance between the two sides - the programers and the users. And I see every day both - in internet and the reality. The programmers, often from university environment, are motivated to solve problems for show themselves and others they are inteligent; they think people have to use gratefully their good progs, etc. The users are of all kind, but the most are very simple persons, many even analfabets; the main application of computers is games and watching video; they have absolutely no idea and no interest about teoretical or puristic (private/proprietary) drivers etc; them interests exclusively that the computer is working for their aplications, no matter how. And they are impatient; when for something is no driver, and you pick one from internet and come back the next day, already was reinstalled W$ ...

I know all existing efforts to make Linux more simple-person-able, and in a review this week Linus affirmed that this desire also the programmers, but it's still far, and the efforts are insufficient ...

Now, I see in the practics what's wrong, and I feel there have to occure a very rigorous simplification. Saying, you buy a new washmachine, and it suddently stops and gives a message: for resolve this, you have to pull the nibble devx2y4 through the hole ab3d. What now ??? Similar, when a simple user which barely know what's inside a computer or what's a hard disk, during an instalation get a message: you want to format /dev/sda3 with ext4dev or with reiser4fs ?? What now ?? !! In fact, there is no need to ask the user anything about partitions -- the install program has to find anywhere empty space on the disk, no matter where, and install there Linux !!

The live CD's , to my opinion, are the wrong way. People use them 20 times and then still don't know what they want. Also, they are much too slow; in that time you install a real system of that size definitively.


Because of all this, I made SYS with the intention to provide a distro which for simple people, in the most easy, quick, effective, and itself divulging manner, substitutes W$ by Linux, inclusive a working ADSL (pppoe) connection. I also pretend to always hear simple users and improve problems.


Currently, the project is still at the beginning. There may exist still some mistakes, problems in the tecnical realization. But I think, the principle is correct, and what have to do is just to correct the tecnical lacks. From my neighbourhood I see this. Because it's easy, friends of friends take the install DVD and run it on the computer of them friends. And the small 'computer specialists' around want to show that now them can install Linux too ...

The installation is appr. 10 GB, compacted to 2,6 GB, the instalation needs 12 ... 18 min and is full-automatical without questions. All configuration is done by autoconfig tools of the system itself at the first use, which can do this much better than any install system. This is much better than f.ex. Sabayon, which has the same amount of software on 4,4 GB and needs about 1 hour to install, also the sistem is slow ... The sistem is almost 15 x bigger than SLAX, but the installation needs just 3x than to start the live CD. To boot into W$ will be disabled, but it's very important that under SYS the users can open and use all them files, pictures, videos, and also a few familiary programs; for this, the W$ partition can be opened by an icon on the desktop, and wine with the most common W$ is installed. However, also plenty Linux applications; the persons then will use both and during time decide what's best for them.


So , that is the history, sense, principle, and working manner of SYS. I try something in another direction and more rigorous for accelerate the wide-population acceptance of Linux. And, as said, here around me I see that SYS - although just starting - is doing this already very good ... Now it's to improve the details and repair tecnical problems, also to check and select more careful the software.

Although SYS is targetting simple users, beginners and changers from W$, however, it works good also for advanced users. For example, Iself use it on my server, watch http://copaya.yi.org/info.php (my connection is precary and often down, pls try it several times) In opposite to many distros, all essential programs Iself patche, compile, pack, inclusive linux, glibc, gcc, etc etc, all server software like httpd, bind, php; pls see http://copaya.yi.org/tgz and the installed progs with kpackage.


Thank you for try SYS. I'll analyze your blog , and consider all objective problems. On the other side, the next version will have a changed selection and bigger amount of software even, so that currently it's not necessary to report about missing libraries (or dependencies).

4:54 AM  
Anonymous werner said...

First, I didn't pretend to comment this blog more detailed, because it is a politics what I try to keep for SYS to hear the users and to change everything what was reclaimed objectively -- even if my own opinion about certein features perhaps is different -- at least so long this is still compatible with the general aim and sense of SYS.

Thus I analyzed the blog, as I'm beginning to prepare a next release. However, then, very unfortunately, I noted that the author in fact didn't try SYS. He only writes about my explanations of SYS in the support forum and other forums. And on this, he unfortunately extrapolated the contens of them and increased its own suspections. This resulted in many incorrect statements. On the other hand, perhaps my own explanations were too short or misunderstanding and contributed thus to this.

Opinions and avaliations can be different, but some facts I want to correct in order to avoid more wrong understanding of my distro.

Before anything else, however, I suggest to download it and try it. Already the current version, SYS 20-rc2, initially thougt/pretended only to be a pre-release, revealed itself much better and stable than I thought and pretended ...


There were two blogs, and I comment the facts in the same order as there.

/ The distro contains appr. 10 GB , packed to 2,6 GB, to be installed during 12 ... 18 min. This is excellent compared f.ex. with Sabayon. Thus, the distro is much more extent than f.ex. SLAX or Zenwalk.

/ It comes without root-password, but after the installation and before you go into internet you can put one; what's there the problem and what hacker can come in ?? On Slackware this is exactly the same.

/ SuSE , correctly, is considered as the distro with the most complicated and most time-consuming installation. Thousands of things what you can fine-tune are in them config manager. This is senseless for the beginner - he simply desists - and for the advanced - which makes all configuration inside the running system whose tools are the product of the whole Linux communication and can do this work much better than SuSE's own installer in the small install system. To my opinion, the installation has to be so easy and fast as possible, and also for the configuration during the first run can be used advanced auto tools (kudzu, knoppix).

/ SYS searches appr. 11,5 GB empty space on the disk, first unpartioned space, second by resizing half-full partitions. There is no objective need to ask the user where and how to install the system. In contrary, it's the danger and often happens that the user overformats his existing partition, this problem don't exist on SYS

/ SYS has installed all desktop surfaces - KDE, Gnome, IceWM and much more. Iself use KDE - and I have to admit that the others were not configurated

/ SYS is in fact two things: 1) a simple program system what dumps almost any existing instalation on a re-installable DVD and 2) as an application, the sistem what I put on the install DVD and distributed. For not needing to remaster / re-download the whole DVD and easily apply small changes, there are a) some folders like to_install , to_copy etc where one can add libraries or other forgotten or to-update or to-copy things to apply after the installation. For example, the installated system of SYS 0.20-rc2 is the same as on SYS 0.19 , there occured only some changes on the install program, and in the just explained folder were put 2 libraries which missed.

Although it's extremly easy to re-master the install DVD with such changes, beginners don't need to do it. This can do f.ex. maintainers of mirrors after small changes or corrections, rather than download the whole DVD again from me, as my own telefon line is extremly slow and crashs often.

/ I made my distro for easy and general acceptance. Correspondingly I also selected the name, most simple and obvius. Here where I'm living, the people, refering to W$ or whatever, ask: where is the sys CD, the sys crashed, etc. Now, for refer this automatically to my distro when it's changed on all places, i call it simply SYS.

You see, I call it SYS, not SYS Linux . Linux in the mind of many people is something complicated. Also, they nor need to perceive that the sistem changed, when f.ex. them children used the install DVD. Although it's a linux distro, the pronunciation is on SYS, not on Linux, and the name is SYS: thus also don't have problems with the syslinux installer's name.

/ It's not a 'nightmare' but in fact most easy possible to install SYS - so that friends where I installed it and let them the install DVD, beginners which never before used Linux and like it very - go with the DVD to them friends and install it there too. This is exactly what should happens.

W.r.t. the second blog:

/ The packages are under ftp: or http: copaya.yi.org/tgz . Temporarily I deleted that link; when a mirror was downloading from my extremly slow server the install DVD (what needs appr. 10 days) i didn't want that other persons download too and everything goes totally slow . My server is only for download packages, the .iso pls download from any mirror

/ The installation of Zenwalk, Wolfix, Vector is good more complicated than that of SYS -- at least for beginners

/ The package list contains only a selection; obviously there is much more software on the 10 GB than only that quoted in that list ... . It is just a typing error Opera 3.25 rather than 9.25

/ All the same software is running on my own computer and server, inclusive the kernel. On my site you can see that I steady-steady compile -git's of the kernel, and I never have problems or crashes with them

/ Yes: keep it simple, stupid. This principle is correct, and just this what's doing SYS -- better than other distros.

/ Ubuntu and SLAX are 'simple' just because there comes nothing. For almost enything the person will have to download and install next packages. Just this is what beginners or changers from W$ don't know, don't want, and don't should to do. SYS 0.10 still had 650 MB , but then I made it bigger just in order that beginners have 'anything' and during long time don't need to download/install anything, nor don't need to know how to do it. Because of this, also the problem of the package management and dependences has very low importance -- only me, on preparing a release, have to watch that there aren't missing dependences.


On the side: Initially were me reported problems under virtualization, which I couldn't test (as I don't use this) and thus included an advice. Meanwhile however that was cleared. It's just that for installing, SYS needs some 11,5 GB space; because of this, all installations on real computers (having nowadays 20 GB or bigger harddisk) worked, but on virtualization most people gave a 10 GB virtual partition which was insufficient. Giving about 11,5 GB space, all common virtualization systems work.


I beg the readers to try SYS and to report problems.

6:51 AM  
Blogger DJ Gentoo said...

In that lengthy post, I see a lot of advertising and not a lot of technical information. The argument about Sabayon being too big is completely invalid, as Sabayon is one of the biggest distros in existence. The average distro (MEPIS, Zenwalk, Ubuntu, etc) is only a single CD.
Now, your arguments:
-No root password: You have to go onto the 'Net to look up the instructions to get one? What's wrong with a wizard on the actual CD (oh, my bad, DVD)?
-Multiple desktops: More than 1 desktop means no integration and therefore lots of bloat.
-Partitioning: Allow me to share with you my partitioning layout (the ones that matter)
-sda4: LVM
-sda5: 2GB Swap
-sda6: 10GB Arch
-sda7: 10GB SimplyMEPIS
-sda8: 10GB eLive
-sda9: 40GB Shared /home partition
You're saying that if I installed SYS, it would try to partition sda9 (/home, which is obviously the most vital one) into a 11.5GB partition, probably with the risk of data loss. And you want me to try an untested distribution and lose most of my data WHY?
Then, there's the 11.5GB issue. 11.5GB leaves space for your OS and... about 500MB of storage. What if someone wants to... Ah, who am I kidding, after trying out your distro, nobody would want to download another one! Or are you trying to oppress the user?
-Upgrading: You still didn't mention what package manager you use. You're saying you still have to download the tarball, screw around with the ISO, and re-burn it (and re-install it, losing all our data AGAIN) just to try out the new installer?
-W$: Could you stop referring to Windows as "W$"? It shows extreme pointless unjustified fanboyism, and you're not a Linux fanboy, are you?
All in all, epic fail. There's no way I'm installing something that will destroy all of my data no matter what I tell it to do.

7:50 AM  
Anonymous werner said...

In the 1st post I only wanted to explain the idea behind SYS, in the 2nd however I entered in some tecnical details.

I don't say that Sabayon is too big. It's approximately the same size like SYS. But it's not so efficiently packed because it fills a whole DVD whereas SYS a little more than a half, and SYS installs much faster. I pretend to increase SYS still, to fill a whole DVD too which will be about 25 G installed. I pretend to remove also e2fsck after the installation, what's really not necessary, so that even extended the installation may occure within less than 20 min.

Good, I consider to put the option to install a password better visible on the desktop.

Multiple desktop is no problem, you don't use them all at the same time. The sistem is good fast.

Yes, on my server I have 12 partitions, too, the 1st with minix, the others with all kinds of Linux. However, the partitioning program of SYS is not soo stupid, and always remember the main intention of SYS to substitute W$-Installations most rigorously and most simply by Linux.

This means:

Whom uses already Linux, don't need so urgently become converted to Linux, and also knows the basical things. If you have a simple or a complicated partitioned hard disk - the most easy manner to influence where SYS will be installed is to create just manually 12 GB empty space before the installation, in the manner as you like it, and then that space is used.

But for the normal case of application, the user has a W$ computer with only one partition or two, what are typically /dev/hda1 and/or /dev/hda5 , occupying the whole disk. Yes it's a problem that the automatical W$ -installer often makes an extended partition with a logical on it, occupying the whole space.

The install/partition programm is searching any empty space of appr. 12 GB and installs there SYS. With preference it uses not-partitioned space befor, behind or between the partitions. When there is no, then it checks how full are the partitions and desfragments/resizes that partition what after gives the biggest empty space. 12 GB ist only the minimum, so that fits the installation. However, in fact, it uses the whole empty space it finds, i.e. if it finds between partitions 20 GB empty space, it makes there a new partition of 20 GB for SYS. When it have to resize a partition, then it do this neither by the minimum value of 12 GB nor to the smallest value of the existing partition but to a value in the middle so that both systems have space to work.

Now, observing the intention of SYS, it treats a little different W$ and Linux computers, roughly spoken. When the program don't find 12 GB space, neither unpartitioned nor by resizing, and there is no W$ partition, then it stops unsuccessfully; principally it don't try to redimension another logical partition than the 1st one (and try this with less preference/after primary partitions). But when there are W$ partitions, it try to get 12 GB space anyway and anyhow, inclusively resizing the logical partition. I had to decide in that way, because the problem that often W$ is installed on a logical partition, and because the people often come to me and finally to Linux when them W$ system is messed.

When you want to know how the install program is working, without to download the whole DVD, then you can download or inspect, at ftp://copaya.yi.org/tgz in the folder SYS_Linux-0.20-rc2 , there is in the subfolder /boot/initrd-tree a program mkpart and copysys, called by init, them make the installation.

There weren't reported problems with the partitioning. On the other side, the project is at the beginning, not yet tested on a very big amount of computers, so that problems are possible. However, there is a logfile, normally wroten into /var/log/SYS-install.log, which besides of plenty other things contains the old and the new partition table. In the worsest case, one go into fdisk and type in his old partition table, as nothing is overformated, normally nothing will be spoiled too.

W.r.t. packaging: on the current version, there are mixed all kinds of packages, tgz, rpm, a few deb, lot of programs installed from source. This Iself using since long time without practical problems. The option for the one or another packaging sistem has advantages and desadvantages which were discussed already by many people and what we don't need repeat here. Iself like most the .tgz system. Normally this also don't give problems for SYS users, when I take care, on preparing a new release, that all dependences are satisfied, and when I make new packages for downloads including all possibly needed progs not already on the install DVD. However, again as an example where Iself have my opinion but I hear different opinions by users, and because other users this reclaimed already, I already changed all rpm and deb packages to tgz packages (on ftp://copaya.yi.org/tgz pls find the new folder rpm_deb_to_tgz with them), and I'm also considering to introduce a dependency sistem, but one what should let things compatible to Slackware etc (contra-example: Vector where the package sistem is not longer compatible). Although, thus, in future i change exclusively to the .tgz system (rpm and apt-get programs stay installed for whom want to use them), and although SYS includes many Slackware programs, SYS cannot be called derivate of Slackware, because all essential programs were compiled from source (cf. ftp://copaya.yi.org/tgz) and all other packages are a mixture from plenty other distros (progressively I recompile/pack them meself; I'm just one person with limited time and the project is still at the beginning).


The project started good, plenty people try SYS already, and I collect reclamations (there are few; that pre-release, what I made waiting long time for linux-2.6.24 and people downloaded during that time, revealed itself much better than pretended and expected) and try to improve it.

8:42 PM  
Blogger DJ Gentoo said...

I still don't get some things. First off, why not set up a wiki with some decent documentation on the installer, rather than telling the user to RTFM (again, your attitude isn't the greatest for attracting "W$" newbies). Second, why must you go into a long, advertising-filled rant instead of simply answering the question? (Maybe it's just that you don't like to Keep It Simple, Stupid?) Third, what's with your obsession with purposely mispelling Windows "W$" like some Ubuntu fanboy?
Finally, a positive note on packaging. Converting all your packages to one format is always a good idea, and your users will thank you for doing what you did when they have to upgrade. I recommend GSlapt as a front-end (which is what Vector uses). For compiling packages yourself, I'm sure there are scripts to download and compile the packages automatically, similar to Gentoo's Ebuild system. They can easily be written using a few shell scripts.
I'm glad you're taking the time to listen to your users and use their feedback, and continuing this might get your project somewhere. However, don't plan on people who know the dangers of letting an untested distribution loose on their filesystems blindly volunteering to test.

10:22 PM  
Anonymous werner said...

Several items from your blogs what are objective suggestions I annoted in my think_about file. Some things goes slow because I'm only one person.

It's also a good suggestion to set up a wiki.

Yes, gslapt is good, here on my server it's installed, I don't me remember but look if it's also on the SYS distro DVD but when not I put it on the next.

Packaging is just an example where it's a difference between my own opinion/behaviour and the politics of SYS, and where I really have to change some things. For meself the normal .tgz system is OK. I me remember Mandrake 9..11 where installing all 7 CDs needed 3 days because the .rpm sistem becomes slower exponentally with the number of packages. Worser even was that sometimes the packagedb breaks and have no reparation. When one install from another partition in it, using #rpm ... --root= then by any incompatibilities often either one have two dbs (one db3, other db4 p.ex), or one messed. With the .tgz sistem its different, the speed for increase one new package is independent on the number already installed; there is no package-database what can spoil, and as larger the number of progs, as more probable is that all dependencies are fulfilled 'automatically', thus that sistem is becoming better instead of worser for big instalations. And my system works very nice. On the other side, for SYS, although it's huge so that beginners don't need to install quickly next programs, one time they have to begin to do this. And then, really, for them, it could be good a dependency check. There are several existing systems and, for not forward the incompatibility within Linux, I always prefer to use something ready than to invent a next thing, so that currently I'm thinking to adopt the system of Zenwalk or AmigoLinux (that of Vector unfortunately is no longer compatible). However, this is a bigger reformation and I'll not yet do it for the 0.20 version. Currently, at least inside my packages is a file with the dependencies.

For .tgz-packaging, I have an own script what's also on my server for download, auto.SlackBuild. I make almost all my packages with it, inclusively these of the kernel. It suppose existing two folders: /downloads/Programs and /pub. It has two manners of working: 1) let it in /downloads/Programs, type inside in it the name of the program to build and pack, and rename it with the same name f.ex. myprog-1.2.3.SlackBuild. At the beginning of it have still some other options - like if the source folder should be cleaned/deleted and if the package should be upgraded/installed/not; also you can type in some ./configure options, and still make changes necessary individually for that program. Then run the script. What's happening however is that about 30% of the progs have C errors. Because of this, more often I use the way no. 2): unpack manually the source code, go into that folder, ./configure -- prefix=/usr or when necessary write or copy from the previous version a configure.sh and run it, then run #make . Only when this is successful, then you copy in that folder the script, no need to rename or to type inside the program name but run it simply by typing ./auto.Slackbuild and it's packing the program. For packing the kernel, is working only way 1), then the renamed script, linux-(version).tar.bz2 and ...gitX.tar.bz2 have to be in the folder /downloads/Programs, and run the script. This makes Slackware-compatible packages with a file with the dependencies inside. Currently, the number of new programs is so big that it would be good when more people packaging.

Currently I waiting kernel 2.6.25-rc1. You see whats happening. Long time I waited 2.4.24 for make the final release 0.20 . When it came, I recompiled glibc-2.70 , gcc-4.3, recompiled with them the kernel and themselves etc. But then was published that in 2.6.25 will be included ext4 more definitively [it's already included in SYS, inclusive booting directly into a ext4dev root partition, and it's included a patched version of e2fsprogs-3tyt], improved (again) the task scheduler, and several other basical things ... So I think, even if the -rc is not the definitive version, I'll recompile these progs again (principally glibc), against its headers to use much better these new functions. I suppose/hope that 2.6.25-rc1 it comes out next night. But then finally I'm concluding that release. After, I take me some time around, for things like the wiki

There is no problem with voluntariers (neighbours) testing - there didn't occure problems. On the other side, only my own server was used to test it when there has an extended partition with plenty logical partitions (neighbours/beginners haven't this); although I belive it's working, in this cases one should be careful and better make 12 GB (or more) empty space for make a new primary partition

I put a reference to your two blogs in the support site. The support site, currently still is a branche inside my local/neighbourship forum, perhaps later when I have time I make an extra SYS support forum

3:36 AM  
Anonymous werner said...

Last two days I was very occupied with preparations of the definitive 0.20 version, but today I find some time to write something short in your blog.

Kernel 2.6.25-rc1 came finally out, it's running since the night on my server, www.copaya.yi.org/info.php , until now without crashs. With gcc 4.3 continues the problem that it compiles the most programs but don't compile the kernel, but gcc 4.2.3 does this nice so that very likely it's this what I put in the release. glibc 2.7 is without problems. Normaly the contens of the kernel is already almost definitively fixed at the -rc1 time, although they still correct errors within the subroutines, the headers normally dont change more than insignificantly until the release, however, it's better to recompile glibc at the -rc2 time again.

I made small changes on the installer, besides of including the new Kernel, not functional ones but for better use, principally removing some redundant messages and put in others for seldom occurences (f.ex. when the harddisk is smaller or even reformatting one dont get 11 GB necessary, then the installation not longer only stops, but write why). Perhaps, later i put this as 0.20-rc3 , although it's not very important; as explained, this SYS folder/program package is a very simple backup solution for dump any instalation on a DVD what's re-installable. After small changes, it's not necessary to re-download the whole DVD, but only that package/folder, copy into it the SYS_Linux.ext3.lzma file of the previous version / DVD, copy into its folder to_install and to_copy new packages (f.ex., new kernel version) etc as explained inside, run mkbootcd and this produces a new install-DVD .iso including these additions.

And, currently I'm working hardly on the system to install itself, i.e. that what will be packed as the next .lzma file of it, on the selection, preparation, test etc of programs to be included, but more about this later.

7:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I spended some more days to compile basical programs (tools like glib1, glib2, gtk+, gtk2+, ~ -mm , beside of glibc and gcc) which are used in turn for compile next programs, in order to put the distro on a clean and certain base. This side is not so important for the main purpose of SYS - to be most beginner-friendly - however as I explained, beside of beginners, SYS can also be used by more advanced users, inclusive iself use it for my server and all other kinds of aplications.

However, now the most important programs are recompiled, all binary packages can be download from my server copaya.yi.org/tgz , so that it`s a good instant to put the current state as a -rc , so that people can download it. Some hours ago, I tgz-packed and put for download the current version of the backup-and-install-program, and from the installed system itself, at the moment the computer is preparing an install DVD, and I hope in a few hours its ready, however as my connection is very slow, I send a DVD via post to two mirrors, so that it will need two or three days until version 0.20-rc3 can be downloaded

The installer is now very satisfactory, and the most basical progs are compiled; until the final 0.20 release, what I pretend to improve is the side of the selection of the no-basical programs (such as, web/video aplications, games, etc) which I put in SYS.

6:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good, yesterday I `finished` with the attempt to make everything `perfect` (but then never nothing becomes ready ...) and put the current state as 0.20-rc3 . The installer works very well, and the sistem itself, i updated the kernel, the basical programs explained in my last post, and some missing dependencies. Kernel 2.6.25-rc3 has some changes in device drivers, whereto programs still need to be adapted, so that some programs don`t work correctly with it (f.ex. k3b , x-keyboard driver and others) and so that I put also 2.6.24.3 from yesterday.

0.20-rc3 runs nice. But
for people which downloaded already 0.20-rc2, it`s not necessary to download 0.20-rc3. Its better to wait a little more, because I`m now quickly prepare version 0.20 itself. Also, I need to send the DVD first to the mirrors, because my server is very slow (pls dont download the .iso from there if you dont want to open an mirror) As said before, for this remains to complete. to update and to test better the installed programs themselves.

Anyway I thank very for each objective critics what is in the manner so that I can correct bugs and other problems, and I also thank the author of this blog that he reported about SYS so that I can make some explanations and comments.

8:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Im glad to can inform that, finally, SYS 0.20 was released on the 14th.

As my server is very slow (download needs 5 days), only one mirror after the other can download it, and other people should download it from the mirrors. For accelerate this, I sent by post the DVD to 2 mirrors.

Now its a DVD full, descompacted 16,6 GB. On the computers where I tested/installed it until now, it needs 18-27 min for install, this is fast compared with f.ex. Sabayon. Also I deleted all documentation (except the man-pages) which almost nobody reads so that its full of plenty progs. I tested them good and hope there are no broken links/deps.

Until the end, Iself compiled so many as possible basical progs, for the bases of SYS dont depend on other distros. kernel is 2.6.25-rc5, rather good and meanwhile almost without regressions, glibc i compiled to its headers. gcc 4.3 i tested long, it compiles almost all progs but it has still problems with the kernel, so that i stayed with 4.2.3.

I make many efforts to make SYS good, and hope that this was successful and the users like it.

With that release, also was reached (certainly, only for the moment) the 2nd step, to select and get through the progs to be delivered with SYS, after the 1st step to make an beginners-easy install/ADSL-connection prog. Now I pretend to go to the 3rd step, this is, improve the any-user-utility, by write some scripts and auxiliary programs which makes things easy. Some I indicated already in this blog, f.ex. a script what reads out from any existing W$-installation all privat/config data (such as: internet username/passwd) and writes them into the corresponding Linux file, so that the user has nothing to configure again what he already configured under W$.

Please wait a few days until the first mirror got the .iso, and then please try and test SYS.

2:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is the new version of SYS , 0.21 , on the mirror:

http://sys.bb83.de there SYS_Linux-0.21.iso

I would be very glad if people try it, and also report about problems so that I can correct them

5:34 AM  
Blogger DJ Gentoo said...

You have a site to post your changelog on, right? If so, why are you posting what should be on your changelog here?

7:42 AM  

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